In an interview with the "Red Net archaeology" Zheng Jiali: Archaeological neither great nor particularly bizarre
The narrow sense refers to archaeology, archaeology. In theory, all the remains and relics left by the ancients, is the object of investigation and excavation, archaeologists study. The tombs are the most common type of cultural relics. "Work is grave" seemingly ridicule, for archaeologists, is an objective description of.
Author: Zhang Yuyao
1. accidentally, but not leave this line
Book Township weekly: "I am an archaeological workers work is equal to the grave" in the online fire, you also known as the "archaeology network red", what kind of feelings? You can use one or two words, the archaeological what is concisely summarized?
Zheng Jiali: this sentence is circulated on the Internet, I did not think of. Advantage is that most people never know Zhejiang has a study of ancient tombs, usually also write essays of the archaeological workers; the disadvantage is that this sentence from a specific text, people mistakenly thought I was a hand piece". In fact, from the beginning of the first day, I am serious and sincere communication. As for the "Red Net", this is not my age used language.
Xiang book magazine: you had been admitted to Xiamen archaeological professional feel very confused, but for so many years, many people went, you still adhere to this profession, which is how interested in and stick to it?
Zheng Jiali: I'm interested in the history of ancient China, the university volunteer is full of history, but archaeological professional admission, indeed not my love. The year of college, she is very difficult, I am not the kind of special strong minded people, lack does not reach the goal and never give up. During my internship of archaeological interest in University adorable fields, the biggest advantage of field work, is to pay a harvest, can go to many places, and is rooted in the local, to meet new personnel. In addition to knowledge harvest, more nourishing life.
1995 years into the Zhejiang cultural relics archaeological research institute until today. People who are studying archaeological foundation, "or find something" reading people, similar to the "read ten thousand books, hangwanlilu" way of life. Reading, help us to discover the problems in the field; we ensure that write the text is not written by others. I have to live this way is not very tired, will never leave the archaeological position. Of course, it may also be that he could do nothing else. Archaeology is the three hundred and sixty rows and is not very great, but not very strange.
The book read: "Xiang weekly" four archaeological, feeling you've been looking for this popular professional and popular occupation of archaeological significance, whether it is now confirmed that the "meaning", and how to confirm?
Zheng Jiali: middle-aged people, easy to be "meaning" problems. When you are young, think that as long as the buried archaeological, a little new discovery and harvest, it was full. Later found that "meaning", on their own not convincing enough, so he started to look for "meaning". Archaeology, and even life itself has no meaning at all, can you give what it is what. Life, constantly looking for self moving. Perhaps, I have a "midlife crisis", and will restore the young state, as long as the work, there is something new that will meet, if so.
My personal and professional interest, not deliberately looking for the so-called "popular", mainly personal interest. Prehistoric archaeology, archaeology in Zhejiang is the most popular in people's attention, but I'm not interested in exploring, made one or two years of Hemudu Site, Liangzhu site, do not do it; I have been found too, Longquan kiln, category of handicraft industry special, very difficult with historical figures and events, major system link. Then focus on the tombs of the Song Dynasty, city, and even copied epitaph inscriptions, opposite Yu Liangzhu, Longquan, these relatively unpopular, but easier to connect with a wide range of topics of history. My teenage dream is when historians, despite the archaeological, I was in the specific work, and strive to explore a "field to the way of doing history" of the road.
2. the "people" of the scholars
Book Township weekly: are you interested in history, although do archaeology, but in the field work, still can read a lot of native literature, by historical archaeology to sasuke. Historians say, thanks to the material of paper outside more underground material. So for emphasizing the archaeological history and literature, and what it means?
Zheng Jiali: the latest period of historical period of the song and Yuan Dynasties archaeology, with medieval, three generation archaeology the biggest difference is that a large number of historical documents. The object of archaeological research, more or less, documented, not reading is not enough.
How to deal with the relationship between literature and archaeological, is the largest archaeological theory of historical period. In my opinion, literature and archaeology is not a context of things, contradictions and conflicts is the norm, should not be hard to; Archaeology and literature, history is not either this or that, the two fragments together, is a more complete picture of history. In the specific research, document preparation is the basic requirements, is the "pay attention to important points", the specific research, archaeological materials maintain independence, is the "start with small". Of course, if we stand in the forefront of archaeological field, the first task is to deal with the relationship between ruins and relics, this is no substitute for the labor of others.
I am engaged in grass-roots work in Zhejiang, has its limitations. Don't say is to write essays, writing papers, did not dare to place outside Zhejiang to write. The identity of limited my thinking habits, my practice must be rooted in the land, this is the so-called "specific meaning to what place what to read". The identity of the benefit is that the field work ensured that I think, the theme of freshness and uniqueness: my writing is "only", because the host Zhao Boyun in the Southern Song Dynasty tomb excavations, silver in the mountain area of southern Zhejiang survey, finishing "Xu Weili in the Southern Song Dynasty document" experience is the only.
Jiaxing city in the north of the city walls, made a trench anatomy. From the surface to the depth of 5 meters left Earth
Shu Xiang magazine: you have more in-depth study of Jiangnan tombs, tombs from the form to reproduce the life status and interpersonal relationship at that time, such as father and son, the couple buried behind, buried buried the idea of a concubine. The personnel of these distant inferences assume, which can provide a new perspective for the academic framework?
Zheng Jiali: the Zhejiang Southern Song Dynasty tombs of thinking, I should have more experience in recent years part. If not taboo, ancient tombs are a very ideological tension image, connected with life and death, existence and nothingness, past, present and future. Next 5000 years of the tombs, is a history of the underground "cover and contain everything China".
I used the ancient tombs as objective scientific material view, the ancients, antiquities to the operating table is thrown, sit on the sidelines, is called "objective". With age, experience than in the past a lot of behind the stylized tombs, the concept of world more vast, endless joys and sorrows of life and death. I remember in the "search" in the tomb, trying to think about the framework of the construction of Zhejiang in the Southern Song Dynasty tombs, the end of this paper, "academic point changes from the Southern Song Dynasty tombs and behind the idea, you can get a glimpse of the social life and customs of the" Yuan Ming transition "view. The tomb is said, understanding of history, understanding human nature, experience the life of good carrier, it can help us to understand their own".
Book Township weekly: work in the field, and you need to deal with many grassroots people, between the identity between village mediation, labor contractor, wild walker, humanities scholars, the book also has a lot of this "free pen". How would you explain to the people to do things, whether there is a conflict?
Zheng Jiali: today, archaeologists and land may be posted recently, the "people" of the group of scholars of humanities. I went to Zhejiang, Lishui, Wenzhou, Taizhou in the country, with the basic construction of the rescue excavation field time is at least more than half a year, the villagers rented houses, sunrise, sunset and rest, retreat, and migrant workers in the US found sorrow; crevice between the new era and the distant ancient times a thousand li a day in the life, work in the conflict of economic construction and the protection of cultural relics, looking for the balance of protection of cultural relics in the contradiction of various social forces in the intersection. The first line of the archaeological team leader, the face of things, consider the problem, not in the study of reading people can imagine. From the archaeological project application, crop compensation policies, migrant workers pay talks, with local people, staff, logistics and engineering construction conflicts and archaeological excavation of the business itself, later the protection of cultural relics, each link can properly handle. This process is very tiring, but also training people.
The old problem is back to the basic construction and the protection of cultural relics. In practice, our understanding of the land. For example, my understanding and feeling of the local cultural relics, from the field of life. Local cultural relics, especially those of public buildings, bridges, such as Guta, the ancestral hall, is a local cultural landmark, condensation of several generations of memory and emotion, is the home of symbolism and deep in the heart. The destruction of cultural relics, on the surface, just destroyed some of the old things, in fact, destroyed a community cohesion and centripetal force of the destruction of the hearts of the people, the common good feelings -- if you are aware of cultural relics and their life and emotion, then, the protection of cultural relics can become spontaneous behavior from the bottom of my heart. I wrote the article, sometimes say many hard words, just want to do this thing.
The contradiction between the basic construction and social economic development and the protection of cultural relics, is an old topic, but also a big topic. Theoretical thinking, my forte. In addition to calling for the protection of cultural relics, I have no idea. Archaeologists can only be adhering to the "protection and rescue of the first principle, try to rescue and protect some cultural relics.
3. archaeology, from more and more closer to the public
Shu Xiang weekly: Society for archaeology often do not understand, sometimes misunderstood some prejudice. Especially this year with the popular literature, film and television of the tomb raider, many people mistakenly think that the archaeological work form is similar, or equivalent to the identification of cultural relics collection. "Four" archaeological also has a "Tomb notes", you see how you tomb literature film, think of them? In this regard they attract attention to the underground "Archaeology", whether it can produce some positive effects, or no benefit?
Zheng Jiali: the tomb is a crime, but also violate ethical bottom line behavior, normal people should hate. Tomb literature is another matter, like the relationship between organized crime and gangster film. The writer to win the reader, mystery, will render the tomb of some novels, such as "Tomb notes" narrative skills and imagination, is quite good, but it doesn't mean I agree with them on the tomb and the tomb of rendering. In fact, the ancient relics, is just a part of life in the distant past, not mysterious, essentially the passage of time, our ancient life feel strange, many can not explain, "to know know, admit what you don't know", but "I do not know, do not represent the mystery. I in the past few years in the spread of the most archaeological work, is precisely the disenchantment -- attached to the body of the archaeological "mysterious" things, stripped out, and kick up a cloud of dust mysticism, and I never missed. We will return to the real life. Novel tomb tombs by the fictional story, the tomb with real archaeology, no connection, we do not love, hard put these two things a piece. Because the "Tomb literature" with the "Archaeology", not real, academic archaeology.
As for the identification of cultural relics collection, I collect antiques, also do not do business. No fake products on the cultural relics archaeological excavations, archaeologists, cultural relics identification is mainly in the nature of the judgment, does not involve the detection of forgeries, but does not involve pricing.
Weekly: Book Township this year, people pay more attention to the cultural relics and cultural protection seems more than ever before, also produced a number of "clean" programs, such as documentary "I in the Imperial Palace," "national treasure relics repair if talking", and a hot variety "national treasure". How do you
The evaluation of these programs and their significance?
Zheng Jiali: This program is a good thing, I hit, are evidence that the utilitarian age also has "elegant power" of the example. In fact, major achievements in archaeology, can not be said to be "popular" "niche", especially celebrity burial artifacts rich and exquisite, has always been the public interest, such as Terracotta Army, Mawangdui, the tomb of Cao Cao. Major archaeological discoveries of the attention, often with the Studio Entertainment news be roughly the same. Like the sea tomb unearthed and faint Hou exhibition, by the public attention, this is the inevitable result of "opportune": one is the owner of the tomb of the legendary experience; two is the tomb intact, numerous cultural relics, more treasure, to the public (including me) have a natural attraction; three is the archaeological excavations and exhibitions very scientific, very good-looking, simple and refined. Of course, there are a lot of people, is the faint Hou as "cultural entertainment news", the story behind the cultural relics also attract people, nowadays most than soap operas, but also more nutrition".
Xiang book magazine: you mentioned the concept of public archaeology "in the postscript, how the current status quo of China's public archaeological work, still have what problem?
Zheng Jiali: I don't say that the concept of "public archaeology". I understand that the so-called public archaeology, is probably to consensus and results of academia, as much as possible to the public domain, become public knowledge. Now it seems that the effect is not satisfactory. I have no specific a ready-made panacea if must say, if I want to write articles, professionals, heart filled with the best readers, without sacrificing the academic premise, try to write something plain, smooth and nice. The scientific nature, seriousness and ideological content, is not to the public accommodation, but the form to try to accommodate the public's habits.
Weekly: your book township "archaeology on the other side" and "four" in the academic archaeology, also have a more personal perspective and personal temperament, then there is what concerns?
Zheng Jiali: I recently read, the new teacher "from the most to have the greatest experience", "field archaeology, history research, the actual landing work". I plan to write a survey in Zhejiang in Southern Song Dynasty Tombs book, Shaoxing, Liu Ling Song Ming Zhao Shan Lv Zuqian family cemetery, the archaeological work in Wuyi and Huangyan Weili Xu of the tomb of Zhao Boyun, in the Southern Song Dynasty, "Yuan Ming transition" long period of history to the royal family, they crossed the Nandu literati family, No. the second generation immigrants, South indigenous different concepts and methods to sort out the tombs, several inherent historical logic, and strive to write academic and readability of both works.
(original title: "archaeology network red" Zheng Jiali: Archaeological is not particularly great, but not very strange)